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Posted: 05/24/06 10:55AM ET
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Hey everyone,
This is Rob Derhak here, sorry about my screen name, it doesn't seem appropriate right now but I've had it for a long time and have never posted.
Look I know you are all pretty pissed off about our photo policy right now, and that is understandable. We did not come to this decision lightly, In fact it has been an issue for a long time. Some of you who were around in the early days of moe. might remember we had a policy of allowing video taping, our feeling was as long as no one is making a profit off of it, then It would be fine. But when we started seeing copies for sale then we put an end to allowing video. Some people did not like this, why? Because they were honest, loyal fans of the band, and they got screwed because others abused the privaledge.
I put it to you guys like this, I would love to live in a world where no one locked their doors to their house, in fact what if that is how we all lived? Has anyone here, on this list had their house broken into, even though they love their neighborhood, and their neighboors?
Because when you are used to living openly it is not a pleasure to lock your doors at night.
But after you've been ripped off, it becomes a necessity. If someone could come up with a real solution, other than the guys in the band standing at the door of the venue, giving the thumbs up to people we recognize, we would definitely consider it. So Anyone who has taken photos for moe. needs only to go throught proper channels ie. Top Artist Management, and Coppertop Publicity for a photo pass. Until then, we are going to have to stick with this photo policy.
Thanks for your attention,
Rob Derhak
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:02AM ET
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Thanks for the courtesy of an explaination Rob!!! We appreciate that you took the time...See ya in a couple of days!!! (Nice Screen Name!)...;->
While your here, can we get a kick*ss Wind It Up to start the Summer Tour? LOL!!! ;-p
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:02AM ET
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Rob - Sincerly, thanks for taking the time to post a resonse to the outcry seen here. I for one appreciate the fact that you took the time to address fan issues. I'm sure many will still be upset, and I am disappointed that we can not have photos of each other during shows, but I will respect the bands policy none the less.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:04AM ET
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Well put. The policy just came all the sudden and it took people off guard. I am still not saying that I totally agree with it but offering other avenues to take photos is a good option. Just as long as they are not charged for a pass.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:05AM ET
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Thanks for putting it in perspective!
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:05AM ET
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"sorry about my screen name, it doesn't seem appropriate right now but I've had it for a long time and have never posted."
User Profile: Iknowmorethanyou
Member Since: March 21, 2006
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:06AM ET
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"But after you've been ripped off, it becomes a necessity."
Thanks for the personal explanation, Rob, but can you elaborate on how you've been ripped off?
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:07AM ET
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Rob,
something I wrote on here yesterday...
GSphan
Posted: 05/23/06 6:59PM ET
i agree with a lot of the folks on here that 'we' (in the internet/message board/tape trading world) have always been one of the assets that the band speaks so highly of as spreading the word about this band and getting others enthusiastic by sharing tapes, CD's, pictures, and yes, a random DVD.
this (i thought) was a grassroots type/word of mouth by the fans ball that has been gaining momentum over the years. taking away the photography of some of the most amazing concert experiences of my/our/the band's collective energy is a poor decision and is a kick in the balls, really. the amount of money, energy and love moe.rons expend to/for/and about this band is unreal...and that should be encouraged, not discouraged.
al, do you really want to kick us in the balls?
now I change it to: Rob, do you really want to kick us in the balls? joking, but really... I am dissappointed that the mistakes of a few are to affect the ridiculous hard core fans that are a part of what makes moe. and moe. shows have that family vibe.
.
.
.
as I wrote to Topper yesterday:
I've come to love going to moe. shows and capturing that feeling of the live experience with my camera, whether it be some pictures of the band, or most notably, the photos that I take of the fans as we enjoy the shows we attend. I never take video clips of the band or use my photos for profit.
I have a nice SLR that I have taken to a few shows, knowing that it will be allowed in the venue and that I can take nice pictures without a flash...but mostly I just bring along a small digital point and shoot type of camera for those fun moe.ments before, during and after a show. With the new policy, it seems like you are taking a part of the experience away from people like me who enjoy capturing that and sharing it with friends after the show.
I am very dissapointed and see this as the band taking a step away from it's fans. Honestly, disposable cameras are crap...I can get some decent pictures with them at outdoor shows, but at an indoor show, all there will be is a bunch of people using their flash to take pictures that won't turn out, and that seems like it will be a distraction to the band.
I'd like to see the management meet the fans on middle ground regarding cameras at shows...Is it really that hard to tell the difference between a video camera and a still camera? I know that they've gotten smaller over the years, but I know that mine does not look like a video camera. I think that small digital cameras should still be allowed at shows and would like to see a compromise made. Is there any way that you can rethink this policy?
I think this was a shot out of nowhere decision, and I hope it is looked at again.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:07AM ET
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hi rob, thanks for being a dick to me outside the ventura theatre in april of '04. al was cool though.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:09AM ET
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hey man, its your band, do what you want, if you decided to charge the concert goer for each note you pplay on your awesome bass...i would pay double, so long as you play kick ass music...i will be there...and as long as you play all nite long...i will be there...you guys rock and I cant wait for this weekend!!!
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:10AM ET
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^^go easy ihatephish
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:11AM ET
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Rob, you and me toe-to-toe In Utica buddy.
Maybe after I will give you a spelling lesson. ;)
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:11AM ET
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Thanks for the explanation. At least now we know it wasn't just management that came up with this new rule. I have only met Rob once and I told him "Thanks for giving me a reason to go on vacation." We will no longer be planning our vacations around moe. shows. If we would have known we would not be able to use our camera during this tour we would not be driving 4000 miles to see you guys. We would have waited for Disney and chosen a more family friendly place. It is to bad ya'll feel like you are getting ripped off. We kind of feel the same way right now.
Put out a dvd and no one would care about shitty dvds being spread.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:14AM ET
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hi ihatephish, thanks for being a dick to rob inside this msg board in may of '06. AceMcbane was cool though.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:14AM ET
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wow, you would drive 4000 miles to take pictures at a concert...that is a dedicated photography if i have ever seen one...i go to shows for the music...i can look at pics on the internet all i want, to my hearts content
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:14AM ET
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Well, thankx for the reply. It still feels like a solid slap in the face from the band I've followed since 99...
Isnt it a better policy to deal with people selling bootleg material individually, rather than pigeonhole it all into something ridiculous and unenforceable? Why not press charges against the seller/retail establishment that sells these boots? Why penalize your bread and butter? How much money does moe. actually stand to make by limiting the grassroots exposure it gets through allowing fan photography? I want to say this decision is sound, but it seems rather reactionary and not very thought out at all.
This has, however, become the classic way for the .org to deal with issues...hastily and haphazardly. I do hope that this was the only conclussion, because it feels like your fans are now taking a backseat to profits. And I always hoped moe. would be the anti-thesis of this line of thought.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:15AM ET
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Rob...thank you for responding.
My suggestion is this: If the band is being ripped off by illicit bootlegged video (or audio, for that matter)...tell us to enforce your no "for profit" policy...it might be a bitter pill, but we (on your fansites) could enforce the policy by banning posting of messages related to illegal boots here (and notifying the org if the vids are posted on a site that can't be moderated by folks on this board).
I think if you ask us, we'd be vigilant. It would certainly be worth a try.
Bill Martin
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:16AM ET
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<i can look at pics on the internet all i want, to my hearts content>
You will be lookin at nothing but old photos now.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:16AM ET
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people dont get turned on to a band by photos...the "idea" of a "band" is "music" not pictures...i got turned on years ago hearing a live recording...not seeing a picture of rob with long hair!
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:18AM ET
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Maybe we can brainstorm a way that would allow for photography without making it easy for video bootlegging to occur? You can't ask security guards to become experts on the capabilities of digital cameras and whether they have video, so perhaps there is another way?
I haven't been able to come up with one yet, but maybe out of everyone here someone could find an angle that covers all the bases?
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:26AM ET
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What does this mean?
So Anyone who has taken photos for moe. needs only to go throught proper channels ie. Top Artist Management, and Coppertop Publicity for a photo pass.
are you (rob) suggesting that if we want to take photos in the future moe. could give out photo passes?
Interesting read, but I still think that actually having security at the doors policing the types of cameras entering the venue would be a better option than simply disallowing cameras that are not disposable.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:28AM ET
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^^^Don't digital cameras with long video features have to be a certain size in order to operate long enough because of the battery requirements?? Just limit the cameras to the little thin ones that fit in the palm of your hand...
But at the end of the day, you can still have cameras, just disposable, which is a SLIGHT pain!!
Come on peeps, it's not that huge an issue!! Change happens, and it's not like you can't still meet your needs by spending $12 on a pack of cheap cameras at the drug store. You can even have them put on a CD and then they are digital..Hey, Daveraz, can we get the wwwaahhhhhmbulance??!!
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:30AM ET
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disposable cameras suck!
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:31AM ET
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just letting you know that i will be taking my camera in.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:32AM ET
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^^^ AGREED!! But at least they left an option for the fans...
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:32AM ET
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I’m confused. Does this new policy have something to do with someone breaking into your house and stealing your camera? Don’t take it out on us man. ;)
And another thing: I have been at several shows where the band has taken pictures of the crowd from stage. Therefore, I assume this new policy will include you guys as well. This isn’t going to be like how Jim can have a cigarette while the rest of us have to abide by the fact that it is a nonsmoking venue right???
Seriously though. I think you should consider amending your new policy to allow for handheld non professional digital or film cameras. Then, like Bill said, if someone offers up a DVD that is from a recent show the moe.fia or management or whomever can deal with those folks.
Thanks for rocking!
<3
Tiffany
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:33AM ET
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would it be a hard thing to ask some trustworthy fans to volunteer their preshow time checking cameras adn such at the doors to venues in exchange for a freebie to that nigths show? im sure I can think of about 10-15 dif. people who would gladly offer their free time to help the band(getting into the show free would just be fair reward for helping out). I mean most fans can tell the dif between video and audio but it wouldnt be hard for someone to put together some photos of allowable cameras and unallowable now would it?
this goes for alot of things. Im sure alot of fans would be glad to volunteer to help out the cause.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:38AM ET
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the last time i took moe.photos with a disposable camera was tthe Red Bank NJ shows. And the pics were so bad, every single one. A total waste of camera, time, and developing.
Now, I know i talked of Boycott (which was tongue in cheek), but i dont own a digicamera, and dont even take pics of the bands. But i do like looking through pics from shows i missed or couldnt attend, and i dont really see many DVD bootlegs for sale ANYWHERE! So, i feel like the band is taking a hardline stand just because they can.
Conspiracy theory: there are these new cellphone/digicamera guns out there that are impossible to detect. Perhaps this is a security issue, but they dont want to create a panic during the beginning of the summer concert season. food for thought...
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:39AM ET
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do you realize how easy it is to sneek in a camera? that would be cool of you to do that, but it just wouldnt work. you would probably bust about 1 person each show with a camera that takes videos, and the person you bust probably wont even realize that they are doing anything wrong.
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Posted: 05/24/06 11:40AM ET
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<i>I do hope that this was the only conclussion, because it feels like your fans are now taking a backseat to profits. And I always hoped moe. would be the anti-thesis of this line of thought. </i>
Hoagie, how long do you think the band will be around if they cant make a profit? These guys have families to support and no other source of income. Yeah, they love the music, but to say that they (or any other musicians)are not there to make money is both ludicrous and naive. I'm just as disappointed as you are, having just shelled out a bunch of cash to buy a digital camera solely because i wanted to take pictures at my first moe.down. However, It is the right of the band to protect their sole source of income, and they'd be foolish not to.
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